by Jason Joyner | Apr 12, 2011 | Blog, Christianity, faith, verbal boxing
Ready for round 2?
Yesterday I posted about the discussion surrounding Rob Bell and his latest book Love Wins. (Not about the book itself, if that’s what you’re looking for – but stick around anyway!) In watching the discussion online, I noticed an accusation that was disconcerting. Many people questioned whether there was heresy or an admission of universalism in the book. That wasn’t my issue. My concern came when some commenters started hitting back accusing critics of placing more importance on doctrine over love and relationship.
My previous point was the repetitive admonishment in the books of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus over teaching sound doctrine. Paul stressed that over and over again in those books, so I don’t think it is out of line for people to actually question whether there are doctrinal problems in any author’s work.
I had another point though, the subject of today’s post. Again, I go to the pastoral letters for support.
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| “Did not!” “Did so!” |
Paul repeats another theme for Timothy and Titus: avoid quarrelsome speech (Titus 3:2, 1 Tim 3:3, 2 Tim 2:14, 24). This idea is suggested several times, also in the form of controversies, dissensions, or myths.
I’ve seen this in many arenas, from Christians fighting amongst themselves to politicians tearing each other down. This has frustrated me for a long time. A person can spout fully orthodox positions, be clearly speaking God’s word, but they do it in such an ugly manner that it totally demeans the very point they’re trying to make.
People on both sides of the Rob Bell debate have been guilty of this. Whether they’re angry, smug, sarcastic, condemning, or just plain nasty or rude, they are violating another key point of the pastoral letters. “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth.” (2 Tim 2:24-25).
How we react in such things is just as important as the what and why! We may be speaking the truth, but if we do it in the wrong spirit, then we are also disobeying the Lord and walking in sin. I’ve been very disturbed to see televangelists or a conservative Christian politician tear down opponents of their positions. That, to me, is not the Spirit of Christ.
Don’t get me wrong. Titus 1:9 tells us that an overseer must “be able both to preach with sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.” Mature believers have a responsibility to examine an idea from a book, a teacher, a church, and to see if it matches up with sound doctrine. But the heart of the matter can be lost if it is done in anger or putting someone down.
Romans 12:20-21 says: “’If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” OK, so I don’t think this passage should be considered to be calling Rob Bell or his detractors “enemies” or “evil.” The principle is moving in the opposite spirit. Shouldn’t Christians be able to speak with grace and gentleness, especially with issues involving other Christians?
I’ve really enjoyed studying the letters of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus lately. I’ve had to step up into a new leadership position at my church, so I figured Paul’s advice here would be valuable. The dual emphasis on teaching sound doctrine but doing so without quarreling/with gentleness in these letters has been a poignant reminder in what I’ve been reading online lately. My hope for anyone reading these two posts is that they continue to seek the truth, but speak it in love.
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by Jason Joyner | Apr 12, 2011 | Blog, Christianity, faith, verbal boxing
Ready for round 2?
Yesterday I posted about the discussion surrounding Rob Bell and his latest book Love Wins. (Not about the book itself, if that’s what you’re looking for – but stick around anyway!) In watching the discussion online, I noticed an accusation that was disconcerting. Many people questioned whether there was heresy or an admission of universalism in the book. That wasn’t my issue. My concern came when some commenters started hitting back accusing critics of placing more importance on doctrine over love and relationship.
My previous point was the repetitive admonishment in the books of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus over teaching sound doctrine. Paul stressed that over and over again in those books, so I don’t think it is out of line for people to actually question whether there are doctrinal problems in any author’s work.
I had another point though, the subject of today’s post. Again, I go to the pastoral letters for support.
|
| “Did not!” “Did so!” |
Paul repeats another theme for Timothy and Titus: avoid quarrelsome speech (Titus 3:2, 1 Tim 3:3, 2 Tim 2:14, 24). This idea is suggested several times, also in the form of controversies, dissensions, or myths.
I’ve seen this in many arenas, from Christians fighting amongst themselves to politicians tearing each other down. This has frustrated me for a long time. A person can spout fully orthodox positions, be clearly speaking God’s word, but they do it in such an ugly manner that it totally demeans the very point they’re trying to make.
People on both sides of the Rob Bell debate have been guilty of this. Whether they’re angry, smug, sarcastic, condemning, or just plain nasty or rude, they are violating another key point of the pastoral letters. “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth.” (2 Tim 2:24-25).
How we react in such things is just as important as the what and why! We may be speaking the truth, but if we do it in the wrong spirit, then we are also disobeying the Lord and walking in sin. I’ve been very disturbed to see televangelists or a conservative Christian politician tear down opponents of their positions. That, to me, is not the Spirit of Christ.
Don’t get me wrong. Titus 1:9 tells us that an overseer must “be able both to preach with sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.” Mature believers have a responsibility to examine an idea from a book, a teacher, a church, and to see if it matches up with sound doctrine. But the heart of the matter can be lost if it is done in anger or putting someone down.
Romans 12:20-21 says: “’If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” OK, so I don’t think this passage should be considered to be calling Rob Bell or his detractors “enemies” or “evil.” The principle is moving in the opposite spirit. Shouldn’t Christians be able to speak with grace and gentleness, especially with issues involving other Christians?
I’ve really enjoyed studying the letters of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus lately. I’ve had to step up into a new leadership position at my church, so I figured Paul’s advice here would be valuable. The dual emphasis on teaching sound doctrine but doing so without quarreling/with gentleness in these letters has been a poignant reminder in what I’ve been reading online lately. My hope for anyone reading these two posts is that they continue to seek the truth, but speak it in love.
—
by Jason Joyner | Apr 11, 2011 | Blog, Christianity, faith, Titus and Tim
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| I <3 questions! |
Rob Bell. Universalism. Heresy. Love Wins.
There’s a few words that should hit the search engines! There’s been a lot of discussion in the Christian blogosphere over the last month, and much of it was related to those points above. The discussion has ranged from rancorous to gentle, and has often generated more heat than light.
I’ve been an interested observer during this. I haven’t read the book, I’m not afraid to read it, but I don’t know if I’ll get around to it (as a friend has said before, my “to be read” pile threatens low-flying aircraft). What I have been reading compels me to share a few thoughts.
There’s been a lot of critique over Love Wins, and there’s been backlash over this. People have been critical of those raising objections to some of the theology in the book. At times, it has seemed to be a push-back against the questions. I’ve seen posts on Facebook and Twitter talking about legalism vs. love, as if we are only dealing with a dualism in this. Those who ask questions whether Rob Bell is theologically correct are being likened to the Pharisees. Can’t we reason together without it denigrating one side or the other?
Paul, when writing the pastoral letters to Timothy and Titus, keeps hammering a theme home: the need to teach sound doctrine. When a book of the Bible repeats a subject, it is a clue to us that it is important. When three books do that, even more so. I was amazed reading through these books how often he stresses this to Timothy and Titus. Didn’t these guys spend a lot of time with Paul? Wouldn’t they see how important it was by then?
Obviously it is important to Paul, because there are several mentions of the idea of “sound doctrine/instruction/teaching.” The qualifications of an elder including holding on to the trustworthy message (Titus 1:9). They are to pass the teaching on to reliable people (2 Tim 2:2). If he mentions it this much to two men who stood with Paul to the end, then the idea of sound doctrine is an important idea, even if our post-modern age likes to ask questions without many answers.
I don’t pretend that the Church has God totally figured out. He is so grand and majestic that there is a mystery to Him. As John said, books on end could be written about Jesus and they wouldn’t cover enough about him. (I’m also reminded of the Teacher who says “Of making many books there is no end.”)
Still, we have the Word of God that is reliable and God-breathed. We can know Him, and we can understand principles of right doctrine. Paul admonishes us repeatedly to hold to sound doctrine. It may not be in favor, but I’ll stand there instead of quelling any criticism. We should be able to discuss issues like Love Wins in a way that honors Paul’s teaching fully…
Which is why I’ve got a follow up post tomorrow with more on this point! See you then 😉
—
by Jason Joyner | Apr 11, 2011 | Blog, Christianity, faith, Titus and Tim
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| I <3 questions! |
Rob Bell. Universalism. Heresy. Love Wins.
There’s a few words that should hit the search engines! There’s been a lot of discussion in the Christian blogosphere over the last month, and much of it was related to those points above. The discussion has ranged from rancorous to gentle, and has often generated more heat than light.
I’ve been an interested observer during this. I haven’t read the book, I’m not afraid to read it, but I don’t know if I’ll get around to it (as a friend has said before, my “to be read” pile threatens low-flying aircraft). What I have been reading compels me to share a few thoughts.
There’s been a lot of critique over Love Wins, and there’s been backlash over this. People have been critical of those raising objections to some of the theology in the book. At times, it has seemed to be a push-back against the questions. I’ve seen posts on Facebook and Twitter talking about legalism vs. love, as if we are only dealing with a dualism in this. Those who ask questions whether Rob Bell is theologically correct are being likened to the Pharisees. Can’t we reason together without it denigrating one side or the other?
Paul, when writing the pastoral letters to Timothy and Titus, keeps hammering a theme home: the need to teach sound doctrine. When a book of the Bible repeats a subject, it is a clue to us that it is important. When three books do that, even more so. I was amazed reading through these books how often he stresses this to Timothy and Titus. Didn’t these guys spend a lot of time with Paul? Wouldn’t they see how important it was by then?
Obviously it is important to Paul, because there are several mentions of the idea of “sound doctrine/instruction/teaching.” The qualifications of an elder including holding on to the trustworthy message (Titus 1:9). They are to pass the teaching on to reliable people (2 Tim 2:2). If he mentions it this much to two men who stood with Paul to the end, then the idea of sound doctrine is an important idea, even if our post-modern age likes to ask questions without many answers.
I don’t pretend that the Church has God totally figured out. He is so grand and majestic that there is a mystery to Him. As John said, books on end could be written about Jesus and they wouldn’t cover enough about him. (I’m also reminded of the Teacher who says “Of making many books there is no end.”)
Still, we have the Word of God that is reliable and God-breathed. We can know Him, and we can understand principles of right doctrine. Paul admonishes us repeatedly to hold to sound doctrine. It may not be in favor, but I’ll stand there instead of quelling any criticism. We should be able to discuss issues like Love Wins in a way that honors Paul’s teaching fully…
Which is why I’ve got a follow up post tomorrow with more on this point! See you then 😉
—
by Jason Joyner | Jan 20, 2011 | arts, Biblical worldview, Blog, Christianity, creativity
In this blog I’ve been an advocate for Christian artists to have the freedom to make art for beauty’s sake, that our creativity can give glory to God even if it is not specifically relating Jesus or other aspects of Christianity. I made the argument of Francis Schaeffer, that if you look over a Christian artist’s work over time, you would see their worldview coming out, even if a specific work did not seem to have a Biblical worldview. This post has the links to my longest run of posts concerning Christianity and art, and it goes into greater detail and nuance.
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| Made to worship? |
Having said this, lately I have concerns. I love to see thoughtful creativity, and I think it is an act of worship to emulate our Creator. However, I think like everything else, it can become an idol.
We can’t sacrifice truth or faith for creativity.
There are different types of creative people. I believe I’m creative, but I like a certain amount of structure and I do well in a circumstance where I know the expectations and can shoot for a level of achievement. Some creatives are *very much* creative. Their whole personality is geared toward experimenting, pushing, exploring, and having a sense of freedom. They can be great people to be around.
The problem can be they put too much on the freedom. They start to clash with standards, guidelines, boundaries. This can become a problem area for Christians. If too much emphasis is put on creativity and the freedom to explore it, they can lose sight of what we are called to in the Bible. They end up worshipping the creative process over the Creator of it all.
I’m not necessarily talking about their art. I can see a musician writing an angry song that doesn’t seem to be Biblical, or an author writing a character or story that don’t have any apparent redeeming value – as long as what they do isn’t directly advocating sin. In a grander scope of their body of work, there may be a point being made by such work that continues to show a Biblical worldview, but it isn’t as apparent taken out of context.
I see more of a problem with their lives getting caught in the “creative life”, and the artist leaving behind the Kingdom life. Instead of following Christ and doing art in the wide beauty of His creation and Kingdom, they follow “the muse” wherever it takes them.
 |
| This may be an idol… |
I think an example of this would be Katy Perry. It is well-known that she started in Christian music, but has evolved into a secular artist that likes to sing and dress provocatively. In reading articles about her, I think she also has let ambition and a desire for fame to drive her life as much as her “art”, but I’m sure her creative side contributes as well.
What is an artist to do? As Christians, we need to offer fellowship and prayer for those who explore the creative life. The beauty that can revealed about God through wonderful art is a true gift we all can and should enjoy. The temptation is letting ourselves go into the creative act so much that we lose our moorings. I’ve had very creative friends that have been misunderstood. Evangelicalism in America especially can have trouble with the questions raised by these type of people. The artist must choose to stay within the boundaries of Kingdom life, but we can do our best to love and encourage them so they can use their curiosity and imagination without losing themselves to the process.
—
by Jason Joyner | Jan 20, 2011 | arts, Biblical worldview, Blog, Christianity, creativity
In this blog I’ve been an advocate for Christian artists to have the freedom to make art for beauty’s sake, that our creativity can give glory to God even if it is not specifically relating Jesus or other aspects of Christianity. I made the argument of Francis Schaeffer, that if you look over a Christian artist’s work over time, you would see their worldview coming out, even if a specific work did not seem to have a Biblical worldview. This post has the links to my longest run of posts concerning Christianity and art, and it goes into greater detail and nuance.
|
| Made to worship? |
Having said this, lately I have concerns. I love to see thoughtful creativity, and I think it is an act of worship to emulate our Creator. However, I think like everything else, it can become an idol.
We can’t sacrifice truth or faith for creativity.
There are different types of creative people. I believe I’m creative, but I like a certain amount of structure and I do well in a circumstance where I know the expectations and can shoot for a level of achievement. Some creatives are *very much* creative. Their whole personality is geared toward experimenting, pushing, exploring, and having a sense of freedom. They can be great people to be around.
The problem can be they put too much on the freedom. They start to clash with standards, guidelines, boundaries. This can become a problem area for Christians. If too much emphasis is put on creativity and the freedom to explore it, they can lose sight of what we are called to in the Bible. They end up worshipping the creative process over the Creator of it all.
I’m not necessarily talking about their art. I can see a musician writing an angry song that doesn’t seem to be Biblical, or an author writing a character or story that don’t have any apparent redeeming value – as long as what they do isn’t directly advocating sin. In a grander scope of their body of work, there may be a point being made by such work that continues to show a Biblical worldview, but it isn’t as apparent taken out of context.
I see more of a problem with their lives getting caught in the “creative life”, and the artist leaving behind the Kingdom life. Instead of following Christ and doing art in the wide beauty of His creation and Kingdom, they follow “the muse” wherever it takes them.
|
| This may be an idol… |
I think an example of this would be Katy Perry. It is well-known that she started in Christian music, but has evolved into a secular artist that likes to sing and dress provocatively. In reading articles about her, I think she also has let ambition and a desire for fame to drive her life as much as her “art”, but I’m sure her creative side contributes as well.
What is an artist to do? As Christians, we need to offer fellowship and prayer for those who explore the creative life. The beauty that can revealed about God through wonderful art is a true gift we all can and should enjoy. The temptation is letting ourselves go into the creative act so much that we lose our moorings. I’ve had very creative friends that have been misunderstood. Evangelicalism in America especially can have trouble with the questions raised by these type of people. The artist must choose to stay within the boundaries of Kingdom life, but we can do our best to love and encourage them so they can use their curiosity and imagination without losing themselves to the process.
—
